The superhumans

[Kent Allard]

This thread is about three people, who most people accept really existed, and could be considered genuine superhumans. There are four, and three appear mainly in the Old Testament, one in the new. The three from the OT are Enoch, Melchizedek and Elijah. I have got much of this by cutting and pasting, but with a busy family life and a chaotic existance, I have no time for ferreting around books and the internet.

This from wiki answers

(Ḥanokh). Biblical figure. Enoch was the son of Jared (Gen. 5:18), the seventh generation after Adam. In contrast to the other antediluvians, Enoch lived only 365 years (the number of days in the solar year). The Bible declares that he "walked with God; then he was no more, for God took him" (Gen. 5:23).

This unusual description of Enoch's death sparked the imaginations of the writers of pseudepigrapha and the rabbis of the later Midrash. Thus, two pseudepigraphic books are ascribed to him, while for the midrashic rabbis, Enoch's translation to heaven (interpreted as a bodily assumption) betokened his role there as heavenly scribe. According to these sources, Enoch was the inventor of all sciences and knowledge since he was privy to the secrets of God and could decipher the writing on the heavenly tablets. These and similar legends are to be found throughout the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha (see also I Enoch; II Enoch).

In sharp contrast, there is not a single reference to Enoch in the whole range of tannaitic literature. Early Christian sources, however, contain many legends about Enoch. The silence of the early rabbis regarding Enoch is attributable to the New Testament's citation of Enoch and Elijah as two witnesses to the truth of the ascension of Jesus to heaven (Revelations 11:3). Perhaps as a reflection of this, an early Midrash declares that Enoch vacillated between being a righteous man and a sinner. God, therefore, "took him" before he could relapse into sin.

It was only after the threat of early Christianity to the integrity of Judaism had come to an end that Jewish authors began to weave legends around Enoch. A late Midrash asserts that Enoch ascended to heaven in a fiery chariot drawn by a fiery steed. Furthermore, he was one of nine righteous men who did not suffer pangs of death and entered paradise alive. The Zohar, as well as earlier mystic literature, takes up many of the early legends centering on Enoch.


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[Cupid Stunt]

Are you saying that most people accept they existed as normal human beings who were the source of the stories, or that they really did live for hundreds of years?

[Kent Allard]

Are you saying that most people accept they existed as normal human beings who were the source of the stories, or that they really did live for hundreds of years?

Well according to the bible all early humans lived for huge periods of time (eg 700-900 years)...Enoch was around for only 365, making him a real youngster. What makes Enoch unique in both the bible, and following Jewish and Christian legends, is that he was translated, ie taken from this existance to somewhere else without bodily death. The traditional view is that he went directly to heaven without dying, though there's no basis for that in the bible itself.

Whether early humans really lived ten times longer than they do today is a point for discussion in itself. Man's alloted span was apparently reduced to 70 years after the flood

[Sandrine]

It's not important where we will go. It's with who.

[thin man]

I don't know,... Is there any evidence of there ever being a flood?

where are the remains of these superhumans?..which the bible also refers to as giants.


is it not strange these folk left nothing behind?

[Sandrine]

Atlas

[Kent Allard]

The common factor linking these people is that you wouldn't expect them to have a grave...except Jesus of course who is the NT 'superhuman'. However his grave is empty.

Melchizedek (Hebrew: מלכי-צדק, Malkiy-tsedeq) is mentioned twice in the Hebrew Bible. The first occurs at Genesis 14:18-20, part of the larger story of Genesis 14:17-24 which tells how Abram returns from defeating king Chedorlaomer and his associates and meets with the king of Sodom, at which point (KJV translation):

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

The second is in Psalm 110:4, celebrating some victory or conquest of an unnamed king of the Davidic dynasty. The king is said to be a "priest forever" and a successor of Melchizedek, and the text is translated (KJV):

The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

Melchizedek in the Dead Sea Scroll 11Q13

11Q13 (11QMelch) is a fragment (that can be dated end II century or start I century BCE) of a text about Melchizedek found in Cave 11 at Qumran in the Palestinian West Bank and which comprises part of the Dead Sea Scrolls. In this eschatological text Melchizedek is seen as a divine being and Hebrew titles as Elohim are applied to him. According to this text Melchizedek will proclaim the "Day of Atonement" and he will atone for the people who are predestined to him. He also will judge the peoples. [1]

Melchizedek in the New Testament

An image of Melchizedek painted onto the altar side near the Royal Doors at Libotin wooden church, Maramureş County, RomaniaMain article: Melchizedek priesthood
In the New Testament, references to Melchizedek appear only in the Epistle to the Hebrews (end I century CE). Jesus the Christ is there identified as a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek quoting from Ps. 110:4[5], and so Jesus assumes the role of High Priest once and for all. Abraham's transfer of goods to Melchizedek is seen to imply that Melchizedek is superior to Abraham, in that Abraham is tithing to him. Thus, Melchizedek's (Jesus') priesthood is superior to the Aaronic priesthood, and the Temple in Jerusalem is now unnecessary.

The Melchisedechians

There were one or more early Christian heresies associated with the name of Melchizedek, often associated with a denial of the Trinity.

Melchizedek in Nag Hammadi Library

A collection of early Gnostic scripts found in 1945, known as the Nag Hammadi Library, contains a tractate pertaining to Melchizedek. Here it is proposed that Melchizedek is Jesus Christ[6]. Melchizedek, as Jesus Christ, lives, preaches, dies and is resurrected, in a gnostic perspective. The Coming of the Son of God Melchizedek speaks of his return to bring peace, supported by the gods, and he is a priest-king who dispenses justice.[7]

The Midrash and classical rabbinical interpretation

Melchizedek presents a problem for traditional Jewish teachings: he is not a descendant of Aaron, from whom all priests must be descended - in fact he pre-dates both Aaron and Levi - yet he is described as a priest.
Rabbi Judah said in Rabbi Nehorai's name that Melchizedek’s blessing yielded prosperity for Abram, Isaac, and Jacob. (Genesis Rabbah 43:8.) Ephraim Miksha'ah the disciple of Rabbi Meir said in the latter's name that Tamar descended from Melchizedek. (Genesis Rabbah 85:10.)

Rabbi Hana bar Bizna citing Rabbi Simeon Hasida identified Melchizedek as one of the four craftsmen of whom Zechariah wrote in Zechariah 2:3. (Babylonian Talmud Sukkah 52b; see also Song of Songs Rabbah 2:33 (crediting Rabbi Berekiah in the name of Rabbi Isaac).) The Talmud teaches that David wrote the Book of Psalms, including in it the work of the elders, including Melchizedek (in Psalm 110). (Babylonian Talmud Baba Batra 14b-15a.)

[thin man]

old shoes .. a broken plate ( I assume they ate ) some kind of relic .. anything..

No not a damn thing .. only a recount based on scriptures that were themselves recounted until writing became a practice..

somewhat far fetched.. I prefer Jules Verne and the time machine or better still the Stargate stories of the Goa'uld and the Ascended beings the Ori

[Kent Allard]

old shoes .. a broken plate ( I assume they ate ) some kind of relic .. anything..

No not a damn thing .. only a recount based on scriptures that were themselves recounted until writing became a practice..

somewhat far fetched.. I prefer Jules Verne and the time machine or better still the Stargate stories of the Goa'uld and the Ascended beings the Ori

I suspect in the old days, things like personal possessions were burnt on funeral pyres. Visual records on fabric would rot over time as would books; no laws on banning incineration of rubbish

What record of Bob Dylan's existence will there be in 5,000 years time? I expect my old L&T CD will still play..on the bog roll holder probably..heehe

[thin man]

indeed plastic will be around for a long time. .. 5000 yrs is nothing historically speaking.. the pyramids and prehistoric stones are solid evidence of former civilizations .. much older than that


stone age implements are quite easy to find, if you look in the right places

[LazySlut]

Whether early humans really lived ten times longer than they do today is a point for discussion in itself. Man's alloted span was apparently reduced to 70 years after the flood

and yet they haven't found any 300+ year old neanderthals, or any scientific evidence of such.

there is a great flood story in nearly every culture that has existed on earth. jung did a whole thing on comparing similarities in creation stories, flood stories. campbell too, of course. they are all rather similar. blaming things on the "gods" is one way of our ancestors making sense of the weather because they lacked scientific knowledge. we don't. and thank goodness for that. now we don't have to take myth as literal and "i said so" as evidence.

[Sandrine]

I suspect in the old days, things like personal possessions were burnt on funeral pyres. Visual records on fabric would rot over time as would books; no laws on banning incineration of rubbish

What record of Bob Dylan's existence will there be in 5,000 years time? I expect my old L&T CD will still play..on the bog roll holder probably..heehe


I want my ears (and ..) when I will..

[Kent Allard]

Elijah

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Elijah (Hebrew: אליהו, Eliyahu ; also known as Elias) was a prophet in Israel in the 9th century BC. He appears in the Hebrew Bible, Talmud, Mishnah, Christian Bible, and the Qur'an. According to the Books of Kings, Elijah raised the dead, brought fire down from the sky, and ascended into heaven on a whirlwind. In many parts of the New Testament, both Jesus and John the Baptist are frequently thought to be Elijah. Based on a prophecy in Malachi, many Jews still await his return as precursor to the coming of the Messiah.

2 Kings 2:11-12

Suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind. Elisha saw this and cried out, "My father! My father! The chariots and horsemen of Israel!" And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them apart.

Compare with

Isaiah 66:15

See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

After the transfiguration, Jesus said of Elijah: To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things

On the cross, Jesus dying words were 'Eli, Eli. lama sabachthani?' Many present at the time were convinced that Jesus was calling to Elijah for help.

[Sandrine]

All ? Really ?

I will need only
my ears, my arms and my intimity

[Kent Allard]

Yeah I know it's hard to be serious on this thread...but you know me, when I have to put something down, I do.

[Sandrine]

Well, well..I am going to be serious now.

[Kent Allard]

Go on then...

[Sandrine]

ok chef

[Kent Allard]

Oh me oh my...that's it...I'll become a celebrity chef...

[Landys ghost]

Well according to the bible all early humans lived for huge periods of time (eg 700-900 years)...Enoch was around for only 365, making him a real youngster. What makes Enoch unique in both the bible, and following Jewish and Christian legends, is that he was translated, ie taken from this existance to somewhere else without bodily death. The traditional view is that he went directly to heaven without dying, though there's no basis for that in the bible itself.

Whether early humans really lived ten times longer than they do today is a point for discussion in itself. Man's alloted span was apparently reduced to 70 years after the flood

ha ha ha are you serious you nut? - maybe they were talking in lunar months? that would make sense so 365 would be about 30 years

[thin man]

ha ha ha are you serious you nut? - maybe they were talking in lunar months? that would make sense so 365 would be about 30 years

V.good... V.good, I think this is the best explanation I've heard for the longevity of our old ancestors

[Landys ghost]

V.good... V.good, I think this is the best explanation I've heard for the longevity of our old ancestors

Well it would make some sense considering how dependent ancient man was on seasonal cycles and how they measured time on full moon's and sunrise/sunset

[Landys ghost]

I don't know,... Is there any evidence of there ever being a flood?

where are the remains of these superhumans?..which the bible also refers to as giants.


is it not strange these folk left nothing behind?

There are flood legends all over the world, all down to climatolgy, we're still digging up Mammoth bones from the North Sea, the Thames was once a tributary of the Rhine, and then about 12000 years ago the last great Ice Age started thawing out and the Northen plain became flooded, as did the the Irish plain attaching Wales to Ireland. Meanwhile the great Canadian Lakes, began flooding the Atlantic and raising the level of the med and creating the Black Sea, so all this stuff over the years gets mixed up together and forms a legend and myth

[Kent Allard]

ha ha ha are you serious you nut? - maybe they were talking in lunar months? that would make sense so 365 would be about 30 years

Actually I didn't say I believed that people lived for 700-900 years..or did I? I like the idea of the lunar months as years. Seems possible.

But if you believe in the impossible, anything's possible

[Landys ghost]

Actually I didn't say I believed that people lived for 700-900 years..or did I? I like the idea of the lunar months as years. Seems possible.

But if you believe in the impossible, anything's possible

Oh....? I thought you believed every word literally

[Kent Allard]

Oh....? I thought you believed every word literally

No, not at all. Truth has several levels. Much of the bible has a dream-like quality to it, and shows pictures of the future and the past. The moral guidance in the bible is clear in the 10 commandments, and the teachings of Jesus. But how can one tell that a commandment is 'true'? Because it works in practice.

If you believe, eg, that the Book of Revelation is literally true, you miss a lot. For example, you could never figure out the identity of The Beast in Rev 13, because your mind is fixed on one unchangeable track. That is what's happened over 2000 years of literalist thinking. So the guesswork goes on. Just watch GodTV, End Times and Apocalypse programmes.

[Landys ghost]

No, not at all. Truth has several levels. Much of the bible has a dream-like quality to it, and shows pictures of the future and the past. The moral guidance in the bible is clear in the 10 commandments, and the teachings of Jesus. But how can one tell that a commandment is 'true'? Because it works in practice.

If you believe, eg, that the Book of Revelation is literally true, you miss a lot. For example, you could never figure out the identity of The Beast in Rev 13, because your mind is fixed on one unchangeable track. That is what's happened over 2000 years of literalist thinking. So the guesswork goes on. Just watch GodTV, End Times and Apocalypse programmes.

Oh god, no thanks, and Ive given you my feelings on the matter, it's like Dylans music, ie theories that, if you want, you can "prove" all you can prove is to your own particular belief system,well those things dont work for me because I dont believe them and I'm not interested either -- have you been to Patmos? I have, no wonder the guy hallucinated

[Kent Allard]

Oh god, no thanks, and Ive given you my feelings on the matter, it's like Dylans music, ie theories that, if you want, you can "prove" all you can prove is to your own particular belief system,well those things dont work for me because I dont believe them and I'm not interested either -- have you been to Patmos? I have, no wonder the guy hallucinated

No....Can you tell us about your trip?

I agree, I think Dylan's stuff does mean different things to different people..and it's intended to do that. Good for him, and a sign of real talent.

[Landys ghost]

No....Can you tell us about your trip?

I agree, I think Dylan's stuff does mean different things to different people..and it's intended to do that. Good for him, and a sign of real talent.

Hallelujiah !!! Dylan loves a sinner come to his senses :)...Patmos? great Tavernas, lovely beaches, lots of caves, fantastic sunsets

[Kent Allard]

Very strange place to send someone to exile, dont you think? That's why St John was there.

[Landys ghost]

Very strange place to send someone to exile, dont you think? That's why St John was there.

Never thought about it...ive no idea what it was like 2000 years ago, does it matter??? it's not like the guy could swim to the mainland from there, so Patmos would have been as good as anywhere,the book is it's only claim to fame,I doubt if it would be popular otherwise...he'd have enjoyed the company of goats

[Kent Allard]

He was there because because he was telling people about Jesus. The powers that be didn't like that. I'm sure the goats enjoyed his visions and discourses.