Has Dylans early period helped shape your political leanings?

[Landys ghost]

I would have to say that he very much re-enforced my growing socialist values

[Kent Allard]

I would have to say that he very much re-enforced my growing socialist values

Well, personally I always thought Dylan was fairly free of partisan political views. Statements he made in the 80's were very anti-political

Show me an honest politician and I'll show you a sanctified whore

and the like

[Landys ghost]

Well, personally I always thought Dylan was fairly free of partisan political views. Statements he made in the 80's were very anti-political

Show me an honest politician and I'll show you a sanctified whore

and the like

Rather flies in the face of his 60's personna doesnt it ? but then I have been a Dylan fan since he started [ just about ] so obviously I'm more influenced by that era rather than the one where he became a bit unhinged

[Kent Allard]

Is it unhinged to dislike politics? I don't think so. I mean, does the average member of the public have any understanding of the real turmoil our economic systems in? I doubt it, but he does have an idea that the next banker's bonuses will be coming from his tax payments, whoever he votes for.

[aspicco]

I never saw politics as a strong component of Dylan... but yes his social songs affected me. I agree he made social comments but didn't promote a particular political stance other than leftish...

[Landys ghost]

I never saw politics as a strong component of Dylan... but yes his social songs affected me. I agree he made social comments but didn't promote a particular political stance other than leftish...

Agreed, but it was a left of centre humanist approach

[LazySlut]

you can care about people and not be political. politics is a game, caring about people's suffering isn't.

[aspicco]

So I call it humanism

[Landys ghost]

Unfortunately Slutty, to a certain degree your right, however politics is the major means of achieving some alleviation and Tony is right too it is a humanist approach , politics - especially socialism [ we like to think ] is a means to achieving that humanity and its where - I think - my ideology and Dylans humanity merge

[Garilia]

I know a guy who's about 5 years older than me, who's been a Dylan fan since the 60's, and he is very conservative. I once used some Dylan lyrics to reinforce a left leaning position, and he became furious, threw some lyrics back at me from The Times They Are A-Changing to justify the Iraq War and told me to never use Dylan's lyrics to reinforce a political position.

Of course I use Dylan lyrics as I want, but he opened my eyes as well as others on the Blue board, that a lot of conservative people respond to Bob's lyrics differently. So I can see that Bob's lyrics can be oracular in that many people take from them what they are already inclined to.

So in that way, I was undergoing a spiritual awakening and Bob started releasing his Christian albums and they had an influence on something I was already predisposed to do, I don't think they changed my way of thinking, just reinforced it.

[LazySlut]

i think this whole thing is based on an assumption that you know bob's political beliefs. i don't believe he's political, i think people make him that way. it's just like using his "christian period" to bolster one's own religious beliefs. (which, if i recall, annoys you landy....)

if bob wanted to show up at a rally or endorse someone i'm sure they'd be foaming at the mouth. didn't he clearly walk away from this stuff about a billion years ago?

[Kent Allard]

Does he endorse the CO-OP bank by providing a tune?

Watchmen is a bleak, nihilistic and violent novel / movie..he provides several songs for it

Beyond Here Lies Nothing..the accompanying video is shockingly violent

Do these things mean that Dylan endorses extreme violence...?

[Landys ghost]

i think this whole thing is based on an assumption that you know bob's political beliefs. i don't believe he's political, i think people make him that way. it's just like using his "christian period" to bolster one's own religious beliefs. (which, if i recall, annoys you landy....)

if bob wanted to show up at a rally or endorse someone i'm sure they'd be foaming at the mouth. didn't he clearly walk away from this stuff about a billion years ago?

There is a lot of truth in that, but if you look at my post you'l see that I'm not claiming him as a left wing writer [ like Phil Ochs was eg] only that in that early period he wrote songs which clearly were of a humanist nature eg songs such as N Country Blues and Pawn - clearly not songs of the Conservative party - and only that coming upon them as a 15 year old re-enforced my already growing socialist beliefs.In the same way as Knut was drawn to his Christian phase - I acknowledge that,thats really not the point...those phases turned both of us on to his music although I like to think that I recognise that it was a phase and not an indication of his current political leanings - and surely the Christian thing at it's core is about humanism? - my argument with Knut is that he sees Dylan as a one trick pony.and I dont make an assumption that because he wrote The Times they arr changing in 1963 that nearly 50 years later he'd feel the same...the question was "HAS....."past tense, does that clear it up?

[LazySlut]

i hear what you're saying.... i just don't agree. look, i think bob is cool, he's way cool. yanno i wanna love him about every legal way there is.......... but i don't necessarily think that bob knows more about anything than i do.... or at least didn't when he was 19. i'm sure there's things he knows HOW to do that i don't (like fly a plane, which would make me barf for sure).... but... i'm not putting this very well.

i think bob is a great poet and songwriter. i think his music is lovely. i don't believe he knows more about god than i do. he knows about his god and i know about mine. and i might be a lazy slut you tend to dismiss like a 5 year old, but i watch the damn mclaughlin group every week (wrong! hahaha. he doesn't really do that anymore i kinda miss it) and a few other things and i know a more than a little about american politics.... maybe more than bob. at least enough to form my own opinion independent of whatever the heck bob thinks.

i'm not saying bob's poetry can't inspire you or anyone. or everyone. i'm saying bob as a person is not known to us. we don't know what he believes in. especially because he's the biggest fibber on earth in interviews, and deliberately misleads people... or at least leads them in circles for his own amusement.... or to avoid having to answer.

anyways. the point i'm trying to make is bob is rock star. maybe his beautiful words moved you to learn and grow and form your own opinions, but i don't believe he knows more of what's going on with this fucked up little ball in the middle of nowhere than i do, or you do. or any of us.

i'm not a buddhist but i look at it like this. it isn't a matter of whether or not bob is the buddha. everyone is the buddha.

[thin man]

"I’m just average, common too
I’m just like him, the same as you
I’m everybody’s brother and son
I ain’t different from anyone
It ain’t no use a-talking to me
It’s just the same as talking to you"

[LazySlut]

okay filing my taxes harshed my mellow and i thought of a slightly shorter answer.

i love bob's music because it happens to agree with my own personal beliefs. and it's fucking great, but anyways. if bob was some flaming racist and wrote hate songs i would think he's an idiot and i wouldn't listen to him..... him as a person, he doesn't guide my deep beliefs.

i will say one thing though. the thing i've learned most about listening to bob, and that's an appreciation for older music from listening to TTRH. i love those shows. i have every single one and i listen to them often. i hadn't even heard 99% of what was on it and he opened my eyes to all kinds of stuff that i really love and enjoy. i'd ask bob for advice about music before i would ask anyone else, given the choice and the chance.

i don't know what the hell i would ask.... but anyways. probably can i french kiss you and hope a good question comes up while he's thinking about it.

[Landys ghost]

i hear what you're saying.... i just don't agree. look, i think bob is cool, he's way cool. yanno i wanna love him about every legal way there is.......... but i don't necessarily think that bob knows more about anything than i do.... or at least didn't when he was 19. i'm sure there's things he knows HOW to do that i don't (like fly a plane, which would make me barf for sure).... but... i'm not putting this very well.

i think bob is a great poet and songwriter. i think his music is lovely. i don't believe he knows more about god than i do. he knows about his god and i know about mine. and i might be a lazy slut you tend to dismiss like a 5 year old, but i watch the damn mclaughlin group every week (wrong! hahaha. he doesn't really do that anymore i kinda miss it) and a few other things and i know a more than a little about american politics.... maybe more than bob. at least enough to form my own opinion independent of whatever the heck bob thinks.

i'm not saying bob's poetry can't inspire you or anyone. or everyone. i'm saying bob as a person is not known to us. we don't know what he believes in. especially because he's the biggest fibber on earth in interviews, and deliberately misleads people... or at least leads them in circles for his own amusement.... or to avoid having to answer.

anyways. the point i'm trying to make is bob is rock star. maybe his beautiful words moved you to learn and grow and form your own opinions, but i don't believe he knows more of what's going on with this fucked up little ball in the middle of nowhere than i do, or you do. or any of us.

i'm not a buddhist but i look at it like this. it isn't a matter of whether or not bob is the buddha. everyone is the buddha.


ok - maybe then "inspired" with his writing is a better way for you to understand what I'm saying from my point of view...N Country Blues could well have been written about the community I grew up in so I identified with that thought process and the way it was put into words and music,after all isnt the highest purpose of art to inspire? and as DH Lawrence wrote "Dont trust the artist, trust the tale" so even if he didnt think that global capitalism destroyed a community writing in as sensitive a manner as that might inspire someone to think about those things, even if he didnt believe in John Brown,the song is still a valid rejection of the glorification of war, and even if he wasnt or isnt a Christian, doesnt stop I believe in you being a beautiful testament to whatever someone would define as their faith...what I'm saying is the song stands whatever his inner most feelings are - as you say we dont know - we can only react in terms of our relationship with the work and it's affect on us as individuals

[Kent Allard]

everyone[/I] is the buddha.

An excellent and reasonable point of view...imo

[Sandrine]

Idon't know for Buddha but I hope my kids won't meet the bad persons.

[LazySlut]

landy i really don't think we're arguing at all.

look, i think bob probably really is a compassionate human being with strong feelings about faith, etc.... logically that much beauty couldn't come out of a person who was ugly inside. i'm just trying to say that his artistic ability doesn't necessarily make him a person who has answers to questions that we feel we don't. we all look for answers, but we all know deep down inside those "answers" are really just "choices." no one really knows if god is there. no one really knows why we are here. not me not you not bob and not the pope.

you're drawn to bob's work, the compassion, the beauty of it...... it's not like that's some bad thing. but let me ask you this.... if you could ask anyone a question, anyone at all living or dead, about the universe.... would you pick bob? or galileo. or sartre..... or einstein.... joan of arc right before they strike the match?

i'm not trying to pick on bob. or you. yanno i loves me some bob. i'm having an existential midlife crisis and i'm on my period.

[Landys ghost]

landy i really don't think we're arguing at all.

look, i think bob probably really is a compassionate human being with strong feelings about faith, etc.... logically that much beauty couldn't come out of a person who was ugly inside. i'm just trying to say that his artistic ability doesn't necessarily make him a person who has answers to questions that we feel we don't. we all look for answers, but we all know deep down inside those "answers" are really just "choices." no one really knows if god is there. no one really knows why we are here. not me not you not bob and not the pope.

you're drawn to bob's work, the compassion, the beauty of it...... it's not like that's some bad thing. but let me ask you this.... if you could ask anyone a question, anyone at all living or dead, about the universe.... would you pick bob? or galileo. or sartre..... or einstein.... joan of arc right before they strike the match?

i'm not trying to pick on bob. or you. yanno i loves me some bob. i'm having an existential midlife crisis and i'm on my period.

no we arent arguing merely highlighting each other's relationship with his work - not necessarily the man, I think he's a great interpreter of ideas and idioms and comes up with fantastic obligations,but I try and live by my own code and conscious . So it depends really on the question I wanted answered.

xx

[LazySlut]

okay i'll answer the question you asked. no, my political leanings haven't been influenced much by bob's early work or any of his work. he's my favorite musician though.