I'll Dream of You

[Kent Allard]

The short pulp novel of this title, written by Charles F Myers, can be found at the link below. Basically, the story is about a man who dreams about a glamorous girl named toffee..and somehow he dreams the girl to life. The girl he is dreaming of has red hair, and is beside him as he awakes..

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1nJTTZD6MRwC&pg=PA1&dq=%22I'll+dream+of+you%22+Myers&hl=en&ei=QX4jTOWLNI2lsQbwpYDIBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The story appears in a small collection of novels called Fantastic Adventure Stories, published 1950:

http://www.flipkart.com/fantastic-adventure-stories-edgar-rice-book-144041162x

Dylan has written two songs with very similar titles called This Dream of You and Dreamin of You. Both of these songs borrow lines associated with the Shadow novels of Walter B Gibson. Walter B. Gibson's short story precedes I'll Dream of You in Fantastic stories.

I suspect that Bob Dylan has a strong interest in pulp fiction, and as a fan of the Shadow has both used the ideas to good effect. I suspect that the idea of Toffee was, and remains of interest to him.

[LazySlut]

and what are the lines that are associated with the shadow? sorry if you've covered this, i don't recall.

[Kent Allard]

The line "shadowy past is so vague and so vast" is probably taken from a line in 1937's Yellow Band, where The Shadow is in discussion with detective Joe Cardona.

In this Dream of You, we have the line shadows that seem to know it all. The Shadow's motto in the pulps was the Shadow knows.

Dylan link with the pulp character is clear in 'I'm Not There' where the only acknowledgement in the movie is given to The Shadow, Conde-Nast Publications. You have to scroll through end credits of the movie to see the acknowledgement. It's small and goes past quickly.

[LazySlut]

ahhhh. thanks. unfortunately your link doesn't work for me... was it to the whole story?

oh wait.... nevermind it's working now...

[Kent Allard]

I don't know. Dylan seems to get his ideas from so many places it now seems impossible to keep track of them all.

The idea of multiple ids for Dylan in the movie may have originated with the Shadow character, who reputedly had too many aliases to count.

[LazySlut]

who reputedly had too many aliases to count.

sounds like bob....

this story is not very good lol..... it's an interesting idea though.

[Anushka]

I tend to not know about where and if some lines come from an homage that Mr. Dylan
may or may not be making in his work. But I can understand what you are saying with your thought.
And if I may politely I would like to correct your quote or rather completing The Shadow tag is
Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of man? The Shadow knows. :)
Now That is Mr. Dylan, yes?
Nora and Asta are off for a walk now too hahahahahaaaaahhhhh

[Anushka]

Oh am forgetting to also say, that book idea does sound very cool so am also thanking you and may find at library.

[Landys ghost]

Some years ago The Telegraph ran a several pages long article detailing the connections and lines from 50's films in Dylans work - quite a lot were Bogart films - pulp fiction is just another thearaus like those film lines or The Wibble, which goes to show that he is indeed a sponge and great manipulator of lyric snippets, but I'm not sure what the point in detailing all these resources is.

[Kent Allard]

The official lyrics of Dreamin of You have been published on bd.com.

The lyric heard on Tell-tale-Signs is: the shadowy past is so vague and so vast

has become: the shadowy past is awake and so vast.

Interestingly, the change of lyric severs any possible connection with the Shadow novel.

[Landys ghost]

"Interestingly" ?? really? you think so?? takes all kinds I suppose

[Kent Allard]

Yes. Things that don't make sense bug me. Why make such an obvious change to the line?. We know that Dylan often changes lines in his songs to reflect changes in his current thinking. A classic example whould be the various changes to TUIB over the period 1979 - 84...dramatic alterations to the meaning and significance of the song.

[Landys ghost]

Yes. Things that don't make sense bug me. Why make such an obvious change to the line?. We know that Dylan often changes lines in his songs to reflect changes in his current thinking. A classic example whould be the various changes to TUIB over the period 1979 - 84...dramatic alterations to the meaning and significance of the song.

Why not?,if he can do it, it's JUST variations on a theme -- he does re-writes all the time, Ive done a thread on it,he's been in the job 50 years it's JUST a way of refreshing things or JUST seeing things from a new angle, I gave as an example Monet's water lillies, why did Monet keep painting them? and so what ? IT'S NOT IMPORTANT,THEY ARE NEW PAINTINGS...FFS Kent your approach is over-kill AND SOULESS as you analyse and disect simplicity to death!!! and you'll never get the answer because your not him , it makes perfect sense, especially TO HIM,and it's great for us that we have so many different versions, your fucking neurotic....oh and sometimes it may JUST be that he's forgotten words or even, dare I say it,mixed them up,he is fallible you know.

[Kent Allard]

In my opinion, it is important to understand why Monet kept painting the same old thing again and again. Why water lilies, why Giverny? I don't know, but I'd like to, simply because Monet interests me..he's one of my favourite artists. That approach is far from soulless and actually pays significant respect to the artist.

[Landys ghost]

You end up, imo, in a position of losing sight of the primary objective of the work, can you guess what it is? for the sake of futile investigation of every nook and cranny and nuance,in short you become a pain in the arse and a bore....your not a Dylan fan your a bloodhound, I mean cant you listen without getting your microscope out?

When Ricks makes a comparison between Ode to a Greek Urn and Not Dark Yet, it's mildly interesting but it doesnt really affect my feelings toward that song and how it comes across to me...ive books on what people think of Dylan's work coming out my ears,some are useful, most are ultimately irrelevant and , believe me, you add 0 to the process, why dont you peddle this pointless exercise on Expecting Rain?

[Kent Allard]

I don't write books on Dylan. I engage in conversations and write poetry, which I may (try) to publish, though I probably lack the courage to go through with it.

We know the purpose of Dylan's work, because he's told us...to inoculate the world with disillusionment, as I recall.

That's a very interesting objective, imo. I mean, why not have the objective of bringing an era of peace and harmony, the blessings of tranquility? Perhaps because he knows when the time is right to strike.

[Landys ghost]

I don't write books on Dylan. I engage in conversations and write poetry, which I may (try) to publish, though I probably lack the courage to go through with it.

We know the purpose of Dylan's work, because he's told us...to inoculate the world with disillusionment, as I recall.

That's a very interesting objective, imo. I mean, why not have the objective of bringing an era of peace and harmony, the blessings of tranquility? Perhaps because he knows when the time is right to strike.

Oh for goodness sake man!! Dylan frequently spouts off these semi - mysterious utterings, and you take it in like a gullible fool, thats how he keeps idiot intellectuals like you hooked, why do it through the vehicle of popular music and entertainment? how wide is his audience going to be? whose going to be, as bothered, as neurotics and bores like you to jump to conclusions and assumptions based on your own world view..."he knows when the time is right to strike" what on earth do you mean ? no, dont bother, perleese, just go back to your pointless books and look for irrelevant comparisons for your audience of ..... 1 - YOU, people like you make me puke you cant smell the coffee and see the wood for the trees in the pursuit of trying to be so clever and proud about someone you'll never ever really know whose primary function is to entertain via poetry set to a popular musical style.
Tell me ,when and why did you get into him? - lets see if I'm right, do you pay attention to the music at all? can you interpret songs without the literary thing?, do you bother reading far, far better Dylanologists than you can ever hope to be?

Have you ever actually been to a Dylan concert? youve never said so, if you enjoyed it or whatever , and thats why your a cold souless bastard you appear to have no love or passion of the music and the performance, you just want to disect him as if he's pinned out on a lab , they - the concerts - arent religious revivals you know, he doesnt preach [ apart from one short period in his career when he was ingratiating himself with Mary Artes], he doesnt politic and people just groove on the work , they arent studying at a fucking seminar run by a professor and writing fucking thesis on the true meaning of trains in Dylans work, those things are interesting but their a diversion, your just like Mr Jones and the sort of clown Im taking the piss out of on my Dylan Theory thread,I mean how do you shave in the morning if you could see yourself as others do

[LazySlut]

http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Roll_eye/rolleye0014.gif (http://www.free-avatars.co.uk/)

[LazySlut]

i think it would be nice if we all kissed and made up. then we can all get naked an lay in a pile and sort things out from there and in the afterglow go back to drooling over our mutual love of bob which is so deep and magical and yummy and stuff that it transcends any possible differences (except for those racist dillholes) in personal philosophy.

no cold sores, please. bring your own tingly lotions.

ps. since we're not actually doing this i'm including everyone in my invitation (except for those racist dillholes).

pps. we don't really have this many members, but you get the idea.
http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/party0028.gif (http://www.free-emoticons.co.uk/emoticons/Party/)

[LazySlut]

ps. i'm stoned, bitches. hahahahaahaha. drop it like it's hot.

[Kent Allard]

Actually I think Dylan's made his career objectiive quite clear

I'm here to create the new imperial empire

is sung in practically every concert. Scary stuff..mystical, I don't think so.

Good job the next line comes straight from the heart of the scriptures:

I love you so much, didn't think I could, can't tell my heart that your'e no good.

I love these lines, and they're Dylan originals. No borrowing from Ovid, Virgil or Plutarch here.

[Landys ghost]

bullshit, imperial empires my arse fuck off

[Isis]

I think that it is interesting.

[LazySlut]

that lyric makes me think of bob dressed up like han solo.... with a big light sabre. saber? oh hell. anyways. the force be with you, bob. :cheese:

[Kent Allard]

Well I may be in a padded cell but I SCORED 43 POINTS IN THE POOL THE OTHER NIGHT!!.

Okay I'll try and behave now

Seriously if Bob's empire is real, he's not necessarily the emperor. Remember please that he's only second in command (in this version of death called life).

[LazySlut]

congrats kent!

[Landys ghost]

Well I may be in a padded cell but I SCORED 43 POINTS IN THE POOL THE OTHER NIGHT!!.

Okay I'll try and behave now

Seriously if Bob's empire is real, he's not necessarily the emperor. Remember please that he's only second in command (in this version of death called life).

well,seriously, it's not real so dont worry about it [and the princess and the prince discuss whats real and what is not ]

ps whose he 2nd in command to??

[Isis]

well,seriously, it's not real so dont worry about it [and the princess and the prince discuss whats real and what is not ]

ps whose he 2nd in command to??

Is it only me or can anybody else imagine Christ enjoyin' kickin' Bob's little skinny butt?
I can hear him shout to him: Hey now you listen to MEEEE for a change?


oh sorry I guess it's only my wild imagination ha ha ha

well I have to imagine something better than this padded cell....acually I don't see any padding? Where's the padding?

[Isis]

What I am wondering about is how on earth is Bob gonna get used to come in second? Actually it must be third cuz Mick Jagger........?

[Kent Allard]

Well the line in Huck's Tune says he's next in command...suggests he's second in command atm but will be in command at some point in the future. We can come up with some ideas about who's in command at the moment....I'd say..... .. . . . . . .. .

[Isis]

I'd say the toys from toy story.........

[Landys ghost]

Well the line in Huck's Tune says he's next in command...suggests he's second in command atm but will be in command at some point in the future. We can come up with some ideas about who's in command at the moment....I'd say..... .. . . . . . .. .

yes...who ? answer the question twatty,your very selective with your "hard evidence" he could be 2nd in command of an army unit in the civil war,vice captain of a football team, he could be a vice president of a bubble gum factory ,as usual he doesnt say need I go on?,so as usual you select and use it to fit your theories and put words in his mouth that you ASS ume he means,wheras we're all have our own opinion rather than the one you foist upon us, this ones going on my thread

Tell me, why arent you preaching the Gospel of Bob on other forums instead of polluting this one?

[Isis]

John Smith ..........I am sure it must be John Smith? Kent can you tell please?

[Kent Allard]

John Smith? I know several pubs that serve John Smith's. It's a great bitter.

[Landys ghost]

fucking awful chemical stuff, you cant do that right either

[Kent Allard]

Haha

[Landys ghost]

well the line in huck's tune says he's next in command...suggests he's second in command atm but will be in command at some point in the future. We can come up with some ideas about who's in command at the moment....i'd say..... .. . . . . . .. .

stop wriggling,who?

[Kent Allard]

JC. I'll leave wriggling to the vipers.

[Landys ghost]

who?

[thin man]

The official lyrics of Dreamin of You have been published on bd.com.

The lyric heard on Tell-tale-Signs is: the shadowy past is so vague and so vast

has become: the shadowy past is awake and so vast.

Interestingly, the change of lyric severs any possible connection with the Shadow novel.

the shadowy past is so vague and so vast

that's what I always hear

[Landys ghost]

the vaguenes of the shadows has now passed....good game this

[Kent Allard]

who?

Jesus

[Kent Allard]

the vaguenes of the shadows has now passed....good game this

It is..Why would a Sony copy writer change the words of an absolutely obvious heard line (no real chance for a mishearing?)

Vague past------> Awake past

I love the metaphor here....how can the past be awake? What does it mean...if anything? A read Dylan headscratcher if ever there was one.

[Landys ghost]

It is..Why would a Sony copy writer change the words of an absolutely obvious heard line (no real chance for a mishearing?)

Vague past------> Awake past

I love the metaphor here....how can the past be awake? What does it mean...if anything? A read Dylan headscratcher if ever there was one.

sigh ...it's probably some simple transposition error, dont worry about it. So you reckon BD is JC's right hand man on Earth preparing the way with his NET? thats a pretty unique proposition, sounds like bollacks, but different

[Kent Allard]

Someone should buy the copy writer a hearing aid.

I welcome a discussion on other interpretations of the line:

I'm next in command in this version of death called life.

By the way I think Huck's Tune is a great song, one of his best, and so evocative. I can't see why Bob feels he's lost his muse. Still seems to be at the top of his game to me.

[Landys ghost]

ive given you several "interpretations" how it comes across is individual to you,I'm not this petty minded , I dont care because it's not important within the context of my day to day life, it's just a song, I dont examine the nightingales code anymore because everyone will hear the words and draw their own conclusions,flash on whatever picture it conjures up ...to them, this is a concept you fail to grasp, there is no interpretation!your not going to stand up and shout "Eureka" Ive cracked what the old sod is going on about"
but, to me, it's a line that reminds me of someone in the trenches, like WW1 or the US Civil War [wasnt he involved in Gods & Generals around this time? - and he's always had an interest in that era] ok? it really pisses me off people trying to second guess "what he means"thinking they can get inside his head, by all means explain individual subjective feelings toward the work but dont dissect it - it serves little purpose

[Sandrine]

It is..Why would a Sony copy writer change the words of an absolutely obvious heard line (no real chance for a mishearing?)

Vague past------> Awake past

I love the metaphor here....how can the past be awake? What does it mean...if anything? A read Dylan headscratcher if ever there was one.


Like "And time is running backwards"

[Kent Allard]

Of course...you're right

[Sandrine]

Sometimes yes, I suppose.
But a little frenchy can't have the same feelings than an old american.

[Kent Allard]

It depends on their connections..

[Sandrine]

on our connections

[Kent Allard]

Yes, that's true ...and the truth is true, whether one wants to believe it or not.

[Sandrine]

Surely yes..
And what do I believe ?

It's me who comes to him, not the contrary.

[Kent Allard]

Perhaps it's a bit of both.

[Sandrine]

He does that when he sings in his concerts.

[Kent Allard]

Did you attend any of the recent concerts? By all accounts they were good.

[Sandrine]

I have never seen him.

[Kent Allard]

Dylan once said that if you had been through what he has been through, you will understand his songs. I think that's so true, its been my experience.

[Sandrine]

like doesn't mean understand necessarily.

[Kent Allard]

And 'understand' doesn't necessarily mean 'like'. I think of Seeing the Real You at Last, a song of bitterness and betrayal. That experience of betrayal happened to me, and the song took on a much greater meaning. Its a fantastic song, but hardly nice. The images are great...sailing through the storm, strapped to the mast. I'm thankful and grateful to be seein the real you at last.

[Sandrine]

Me, he touches me because he gives emotion when he sings (I adore his voice(s)). And he knows tell stories in his songs (I only need to translate).

[Kent Allard]

Yes. And unlike many singers, he's not a fake.

[Sandrine]

And 'understand' doesn't necessarily mean 'like'. I think of Seeing the Real You at Last, a song of bitterness and betrayal. That experience of betrayal happened to me, and the song took on a much greater meaning. Its a fantastic song, but hardly nice. The images are great...sailing through the storm, strapped to the mast. I'm thankful and grateful to be seein the real you at last.

Yes.. like Jokerman for me. I like the text but not too much the song.

But i think that we can like Bob dylan without necessarily understand what he says (more with me).

[Kent Allard]

Desolation Row's like that, Changing of the Guards...Jokerman is tough to make sense of...I and I, .

[Sandrine]

I like Desolation Row (If I must choose only one song, it's this song) and Changing Of The Guards.
They contain a lot of pictures (like AHRIAGF). We can paint them.

For me, Bob Dylan is visual.

[Sandrine]

Dylan once said that if you had been through what he has been through, you will understand his songs. I think that's so true, its been my experience.

What song(s) ?

[Kent Allard]

Ain't Talking, for one.